Help me with my general confusion about the need for a dedicated server?

March 15th, 2010
  • My host tells me that I am close to needing a dedicated server because I have too many open connections at one time. My vB has a little over 1400 members and I average about 30 people on the board at a time. During peak times there seem to be as many as 40-50 people on the board at a time and during slow times 10-20. I do between 7-8 gigs of bandwidth per-month and 250,000 page views in an average month.

    I will start of by saying I may say something stupid because of my lack of knowledge of MySQL and PHP. When I look at these dedicated packages, the language seems to indicate (in most of the offers from the various hosts) that you are getting access to a shared MySQL server as part of your dedicated package, and not MySQL installed on your dedicated machine. Here is the source of my confusion. How is a dedicated server going to solve the problem of too many connections on the shared MySQL server at any one given time?

    The non-vB part of my site is not very complex and could probably be hosted for $20 per-month or less. So basically wouldn’t that be extreme overkill as they only thing the dedicated machine would be handling is the non-vB part of the site? Another problem is I don’t know anything about administering a server or configuring it. I also don’t have the time to learn or the type of board that can be down for extended periods of time if I screw something up during a learning process. So I would need the same level of service a support that you get from a shared account. Given my numbers above, do I even need a dedicated machine?


    [Edited by M. Libbert on 01-05-2001 at 11:27 PM]


  • G-man...they *are* managed as long as you don't tweak any settings, but yeash....I know that we needed the mysql/php tweaked for months now and vservers wouldn't do it. If we did it on the Freedom server, we'd automatically be out of any kind of tech support, which IMHO stinks. Add to that the no control panel and the fact that those boxes have 256 RAM for all 8 Vservers on the box and the dedicated seemed like a dandy idea. :D What kind of numbers do you have consistantly on your board, Gman? I'm curious because we were told that we have too many for the vserver. We're running most of the time with 30+ and peaks at 60+. They have told us that we have another person on our box that uses MySQL as much as we do, but I think they use it MORE. LOL We got a good 6 months out of Vservers with the Ultra plan, I hope we get at least double that out of this dedicated. (I think we'll get at *least* that.)


  • Hi Mark,

    As you may remember, I posted a similar problem
    months ago about my dids.com host giving our
    forum a "too many connections" error for days.

    Chad (the owner) moved us to another shared
    server and inreased the locks for us. We have
    been smooth sailing since. It just took a bit of
    lettering to each other . . . and phone calls.

    But Chad DID share some light on the reason why
    VB hogs the resources . . . and the new VB version
    "may" have a corrected enhancement to it. I
    hope so.

    PS: Richard pointed me to your new ads on the
    forum page, and they look good. Please see my
    new Topic in the Graphics Forum asking for samples
    of ads that appear on the right/left margins of
    any VB forum page.

    David

    ------------------------

    David Copeland
    http://ipiu.org/images/BurAgtRecs4.jpg
    Forum Director:
    International Private Investigators Union (IPIU)

    Forum Page: PI Forum (http://ipiu.org/forums/index.php)

    Forum Consultant:
    Motion Picture Actors Guild (MPAG)

    -------------------------
    http://ipiu.org/images/email9c.gifcopeland@ipiu.org


  • The problem with web hosting companies is they stick too many people one server. For example, VServers puts 80 "clients" on one box, and then those clients can have their own subdomians, so you already have 80 sites, and if each site has on average of 3 domains, you have over 240 sites being hosted on one box. That is alot of sites, especially if any of those even medium sized sites.

    VServers offers a semi-dedicated solution, they put 8 clients on one box... and those clients can have multiple domains, and so you get more space & a greater percentage of the servers horsepower.

    The size of site you are describing in my honest opinion isn't in need of a dedicated server. In fact, we are looking for interested parties who would like to "co-locate" with us. We run 2 servers, both use PHP/MYSQL... and depending upon what your space requirements are... we could offer you a great price.

    Give some specs on what you currently have, pay etc... we could work out a deal.


  • To follow your coment up about needing mySql/Php tweeked. I was told long ago both mySql and the php they run on the Vservers are hack versions and are NOT the full versions. I was also informed by a couple of techs (not salesmen) that I am friends with that with the Freedom servers you get the full versions of php and mySql servers and there is no need for tweeking.


  • Originally posted by Joshs
    Why would you need more than one ip address per server for hosting vBulletin? There is no point and it doesnt help anything!

    Multiple Sites.

    At SitePoint we currently have 8 sites running including the forums plus two under development.


  • First, for readability, could you put whatever you quoting in quotes or use the quote function? Thanks

    Sorry, I have html turned on in my board, and I usually quote in italics with html tags. Old habits are hard to break.

    It would slow it down a little (or more, depends on config...).
    admin/db_mysql.php:
    Change the 2 mysql_pconnect's to mysql_connect's..


    If I weren’t clueless, I would give it a try.

    [Edited by M. Libbert on 01-05-2001 at 11:20 PM]


  • Susan,
    I too am on an Ultra at Vservers and have had very little trouble. I am looking at the Freedom line now. From what I am reading they are a managed solution and are extremely fast. Let me know how you like the Linux box.

    http://www.hostpro.com/hosting/shared/unix_freedom500x.html


  • I am concerned about this too. We seem to have about 100 new members a week on our UBB. I really really want to move over to VB but am afraid that as we grow, we are going to be booted off our comunity server. We host at Futurequest and are very very happy. Our UBB has ~2500 members and we keep chewing up disk space each week as our UBB grows.

    I love the features on VB and want it....

    can more folks talk about their VB's on shared servers, how may mebers etc and how many posts? How does it play with others on a server?


  • Why would you need more than one ip address per server for hosting vBulletin? There is no point and it doesnt help anything!


  • David, I know...it's awful, I agree. The funny think is that Monday through Friday 9am to about 3pm Central, they're fine. Nights and weekends, you may as well forget it. We ARE still on a shared server at this point, so I'm nearly certain that it's on one of the other sites on our box even though VServers insists that we are the site causing the mySQL to slow down. Lawnsites has a VB on one of Vservers Ultra boxes like ours, his boards are busier than ours by a pretty good percentage, and yet, his fly while we stall out. Soooo, Vservers loses us as a customer and Catalog.com gets our business. Hopefully, Catalog will get our server set up early this week and the DNS will propagate before next weekend.


  • You can have one ip for multiple sites on one server! That is what I have!


  • Originally posted by Susan
    We had to get creative with our plan for expansion. We have a mid-sized VB that averages 30+ off peak online at a time and peaks at around 60-70. The Vservers Ultra (semi-dedicated) isn't doing it for us. The thing is, I don't think it's us, but try proving that. Anyway, we held a "fundraiser" with our membership. Flat out told them we needed the money and asked for donations. They've come through for us and we'll be outright buying a server and co-locating it with catalog.com for $149 a month.

    Susan, what do they say about your website? Too many hits or have you reached the 40 Gb a month limit?
    I remember a few months ago we were both using shared servers, then you went to Vservers Ultra and I went to Virtualis. $149 a month for a dedicated server is a very good rate! I might go there too :) How many Gb a month are you allowed and does this rate include a backup?


  • anyone got to be crazy to have dedicated server for vb, I think dedicated servers are worth the $$$ specially when anyone use vb, i think vb is good for any shared/virtual host, do you think?


  • well firstly you can ask your current host to increase the max connections on the shared mysql server.. if they say no then you would be looking towards dedicated if you plan on continuing to grow in size for your vB forums.

    all dedicated servers i have read and researched about, have the mysql installed on your dedicated server meaning it's dedicated 100% to your server, your sites only :)

    how much can you afford if you go dedicated ? i just moved my vB forum from rackspace dedicated linux server to a new linux server which will be a P3 733, 256MB, 9gb scsi, 35 ips and 100GB/month for US$400 setup and US$400/month with hardware upgrades only the cost of the parts - NO additionaly monthly fee for hardware upgrades !! i.e. added another 256mb for US$300 once off fee ! :D

    oh yeah, you might want to upgrade your forum to 1.1.5 before anything else :)


  • Originally posted by M. Libbert
    That may be a little to rich for my blood :( I guess maybe where the disappointment is coming from is I think I could have squeezed 3500 members out of the same account if I was still running UBB. I know it wouldn’t look as nice, but I would have another year to find ways to cover expenses. It is a big step in costs going from a shared account to a dedicated package one that has left me with sticker shock :eek:


    Is your new package with UltraSpeed USA?

    I am with UltraSpeed UK now.
    yeah it's pretty expensive going dedicated :( As to past regrets, try not to think that way.. you can get yourself very very depressed that way .. i know

    and yes i am with Daniel at Ultraspeedusa now - he's hosting me on a Dual p3 800 until i get my own server setup next week. But it was Jordon from Ultraspeed UK that made my temp arrangements for me :)

    post how much you can afford each month max.. and let other members here give you advice or recommendations as to you next step.

    oh and again .reminder to upgrade to v1.1.5 which optimises your vB more from v1.1.3 which you have


  • They are great for Virutal Hosts I run my board on one now and if that starts using too much then I guest I will have to do this as well. :(


  • Originally posted by Alwaysmefirst

    Susan, what do they say about your website? Too many hits or have you reached the 40 Gb a month limit?
    I remember a few months ago we were both using shared servers, then you went to Vservers Ultra and I went to Virtualis. $149 a month for a dedicated server is a very good rate! I might go there too :) How many Gb a month are you allowed and does this rate include a backup?

    We've had ongoing MySQL problems with them. We haven't hit the bandwidth limit yet (still somewhere in the 20's actually), and our hits are still fine as well, but the boards just stall out and they're under the impression that it's us causing the slow down. Anyway, they're willing to move us to their new "freedom" plan, which will allow us our own copy of MySQL, but the plan doesn't include a control panel and is NOT a managed option. Well...if we're going to go unmanaged for $249 a month, we may as well go dedicated, yaknow? The catalog $149 deal doesn't include back ups ...the whole deal is at http://servers.catalog.com/redhat_lease_to_own.htm Basically, we're leasing to own the server. We pay $2999 for a PIII 800 with 256RAM 9 gb scsi and 50 gigs of bandwidth a month. We sign a contract for $149 a month for a year and at the end of the year, the server is ours. The add ons are right here. (http://servers.catalog.com/addons.htm) (which includes add ons for tape back-up and rotation and server monitoring, extra bandwidth etc.) The girls on the site really came through for us. We're $300 away from having all the money we need and I expect that final $300 will be in Kathy's hands by the end of the week.

    [Edited by Susan on 01-23-2001 at 05:10 PM]


  • A lot of people have critisised CIHosts for being terrible, but from my experiance, they have caused me no problems with my dedicated server.

    The only downside, is that they install RedHat 5.2 as their account management scripts are written for it - so I cannot update it to PHP4.04 because it has an out of date kernal (unless someone knows how I can do it).

    Other than that, I have this
    Celeron 600
    64mb ram
    8 IP Addresses
    15GB hd
    RedHat 5.2
    MySQL (One before gamma)
    PHP 3.0.7
    For $99 a month

    I added an extra 64mb ram (but they installed 128mb because they took ballsed up :))
    16 more IP Addresses

    So in total, it now costs about $140 a month.

    But as I said, some people have said that CIHosts are terrible - but I have had no real problems with them.

    --WildWayz


  • We had to get creative with our plan for expansion. We have a mid-sized VB that averages 30+ off peak online at a time and peaks at around 60-70. The Vservers Ultra (semi-dedicated) isn't doing it for us. The thing is, I don't think it's us, but try proving that. Anyway, we held a "fundraiser" with our membership. Flat out told them we needed the money and asked for donations. They've come through for us and we'll be outright buying a server and co-locating it with catalog.com for $149 a month.


  • I have decided to go dedicated, probly not for another month tho. But i just priced a PIII 600 server with 10gig ide hd, 256meg ram, and 10 gig of transfer for $130 a month at RackLocation.com, there new, but they are a part of net colony, and pogo linux. Im going to call and make sure thats the correct price, as there site is a bit messed up still (brand new).

    May be worth a look if you cant decide between virtual and dedicated, im going to host two forums on this server, i hope its big enough, i dont get more the 150 members online between both of the forums, usualy between 75 - 125 total.


  • Susan,

    Keep us updated on your new set-up it sounds like a good possibility for my site a few months from now.


  • ...have too many open connections at one timeYou can use non-persistant connections if you want.


  • First, for readability, could you put whatever you quoting in quotes or use the quote function? Thanks.

    How would I do that and would it create usability problems for my users?It would slow it down a little (or more, depends on config...).
    admin/db_mysql.php:
    Change the 2 mysql_pconnect's to mysql_connect's.


  • David nice to bump into you again :) I liked the looks of those ads as well. I had to take them down late last night because I got accepted into an ad network and I am running their 468*60 ads now. If the payout from the ad network is too low, I will probably switch back to that format. Since I posted this, I have moved to Ultra Speed USA. They put us on a temporary server for a couple of days, which caused the problems you mentioned. They are working on a long-term solution for us now.


  • In case the folks from UltraSpeed are reading this lets just say I would like to stay on my shared account for as long as possible. If I have to do something within the next month I would rather just increase what I am paying for more connections. If that is not feasible I can’t see the resources right now to pay more than $200 a month.


    I am really torn up because I love the service and support at UtraSpeed. They do all the MySQL backups for me and fix the forum whenever there is a problem. The only thing I don’t like is about them that they are in the U.K and I am in the U.S. and we have all of these billing issues. Their UK payment form is not compatible with my U.S. address and I pay through UltraSpeed USA. The wires are always getting crossed, and I have to constantly remind them that I did pay. I look at their packages on their US site and they only one I see is the one you have, and I just don’t think I would be able to handle that. So I think I may have to look elsewhere which I would rather not do.

    You can use non-persistant connections if you want.


    How would I do that and would it create usability problems for my users?


    I am still in shock that a site my size (in terms of bandwidth and page views) would require a dedicated server. It is like I finally got an invitation to the party, but I don’t have anything to wear.

    [Edited by M. Libbert on 01-05-2001 at 11:33 PM]


  • About my last post...

    I just talked to scott of RackLocation.com, for my server, its $228 for the first month, and $129 each additional month, all for a PIII 600, 256meg ram ($30 more a month for 512meg!), 10gig hard drive, 2 ip's, 10gig of transfer. Additional transfer is $4/gig, additional IP's are $1/month

    He will install MySQL and PHP4 for me for free (im sure i could do it, but im a newbie to unix) if i order today...

    The only down side, is the hard drive, id rather have scsi, but i guess ide will be ok, just a bit slower.

    So, will this server handle 150 users at a time? Im also worried about the price, almost to cheap?


  • how much can you afford if you go dedicated ? i just moved my vB forum from rackspace dedicated linux server to a new linux server which will be a P3 733, 256MB, 9gb scsi, 35 ips and 100GB/month for US$400 setup and US$400/month with hardware upgrades only the cost of the parts - NO additionally monthly fee for hardware upgrades !! i.e. added another 256mb for US$300 once off fee !


    That may be a little to rich for my blood :( I guess maybe where the disappointment is coming from is I think I could have squeezed 3500 members out of the same account if I was still running UBB. I know it wouldn’t look as nice, but I would have another year to find ways to cover expenses. It is a big step in costs going from a shared account to a dedicated package one that has left me with sticker shock :eek:


    Is your new package with UltraSpeed USA?

    I am with UltraSpeed UK now.

    [Edited by M. Libbert on 01-05-2001 at 11:31 PM]


  • Hi, Susan.

    What in the worth is dogging down both of your
    boards? I'm on DSL, and it took longer to load
    up your forums than a dial-up would do.

    (Congratulations on your new project)

    David







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